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24. A Way of Being, with Gaz Kishere

Our guest on this episode is Gaz Kishere. He's a friend and the author of a book that we highly recommend. So many of us have walked away from everything we knew when we left organized religion. It's so important to give and receive permission to change our beliefs as we go. We discuss many things, including how we were taught to fear losing what was always free and unorganized Christianity. It's a beautiful conversation that we hope you'll enjoy.


Church: A Counter Narrative by Gaz Kishere (You can buy it here on

"The journey ‘out’ of organised Christianity is a much more complex and traumatic experience,than the journey in. It seems that everything is geared towards getting you in and keeping you in, with little thought or process given to helping people leave in a healthy and supported way.

There is ‘no’ exit strategy.

Gaz has been out of ‘church world’ for more than 20 years and seeks to unpack some of its toxic, life limiting cultures. He takes us on an insightful journey through some of the issues, which have contributed to more and more people exploring faith and spirituality outside of its walls, beyond its gravitational pull. This book is a heartfelt call to those who feel that they have left God in the building, offering hope as they seek to undo the conditioning and practices, which separated them from the ‘real world’.

Gaz has spent much of the last three decades working in community development, project funding, mentoring, counter child trafficking and supporting people who are displaced. The last few years have been spent investing in grassroots projects with leadership and strategic development, alongside giving therapeutic support to frontline workers who are dealing with stress, trauma and burn out."


Hosted by Shannon Ruddy & Ashley Simmons

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